Alles over de E90/E92/E93 M3 (part I)

[Tom]

Die zat ook al op de E46 alleen iets minder opvallend.

[romo]

De PD is meer opvallend en ook groter dan bij de E46 M3, niet voor de sier, wel functioneel, het luchtfilter past anders niet onder de motorkap
Zittende in de auto, met stoel in de diepste stand ( kan dieper dan bij de E46 M3) vind ik het iets te veel van het goede.

[Hielke]

Rebel komt niet Hans, laat dat meerijden op Zandvoort aub een paar rondjes aan mij over 8)

Hielke jij zult onderhand wel een getraind linkerbeen hebben, met dat instappen als bijrijder bij anderen

Je zult het misschien niet geloven Rob, maar het komt slechts heel sporadisch voor dat ik op een circuit bij iemand anders instap. Ik hou daar normaliter nl niet zo van. Liever neem ik het roer zelf over Andre, Maik en Edwin hebben de eer mogen proeven die 100 kg dode massa ooit eens te mogen meetorsen over een paar rondjes Hoe goed Hanz06 rijdt weet ik niet. Slecht is het niet gezien het videomateriaal dat ik van hem gezien heb. Maar ik ben zo benieuwd naar de kwaliteiten van die roemruchtige Z06 dat ik er graag wat peentjes voor wil zweten

[Macboy]

@macboy

Ik heb het idee dat er voor jou maar 1 merk is en dat is bmw.

Tuurlijk Hans. Daarom rijd ik ook Audi

Ik schreef in mijn post M3 natuurlijk, omdat we het hier over een M3-draadje hebben en niet een draadje waarin we de beste gezinsauto uitkiezen waarmee je over de Ring kan scheuren

Ongetwijfeld zijn er veel andere auto's die beter of sneller zijn, maar ik wilde ff on-topic blijven en niet andere mensen/auto's tegen hun borst stoten.

Hans nog iets over de post van Rebel: dat je überhaupt reageert op zijn post zegt ook iets over jou . Hij heet niet voor niets Rebel, dus je moet zo'n post wel met een korrel zout nemen. Jammer dat je dat niet doet.

@Rebel: je opmerking richting Hielke is natuurlijk onzin. Er is maar één persoon op dit forum die een 10 krijgt voor zijn uitleg over hoe een auto zich op de weg gedraagd en dat is niet André, maar Hielke. Wie de betere rijder is heb ik het niet over, maar Hielke lult niemand achterna

[Andre]

Komt romo met de m3 naar zandvoort.

[Topfuel]

Even off topic. Interieur Z06 is idd nix mis mee en zit goed in elkaar. Enig min puntje is de zijdelingse steun in de bochten.

Het rijgedrag van een z06 is imo met geen pen te beschrijven, laat staan met een toetsenbord. Deze komt als je hem vergelijk met bovengenoemde auto's van een heel andere planeet! Als ik een ton had, had ik al een Z06...

Veel mensen hebben hun mening klaar over de auto (zonder er zelf maar een meter in te hebben gestuurd), ik denk dat 99% van deze mensen hun mening herzien als ze (mee)rijden in een Z06. Ze stappen uit met de adrenaline gierend door hun aderen en denken: ''Hebben hebben hebben!''

[Macboy]

Veel mensen hebben hun mening klaar over de auto

Het gaat nu erg off topic ! En ook is het inhoudelijk beetje onzinnig, want volgens mij was 95% van het forum lyrisch over Z06, zónder erin te hebben gereden.

Ga aub Rebel niet met de rest over één kam scheren !

[Opa]

Leuk draadje.

Volgens mij hangt van iemand z'n smaak en de grote van z'n portemonnee af waar ie mee rijdt.....en smaken en portemonnee's verschillen nogal.

[Topfuel]

Veel mensen hebben hun mening klaar over de auto

Het gaat nu erg off topic ! En ook is het inhoudelijk beetje onzinnig, want volgens mij was 95% van het forum lyrisch over Z06, zónder erin te hebben gereden.

Ga aub Rebel niet met de rest over één kam scheren !

Daar heb je gelijk in Macboy, maar ik bedoel niet met ''veel mensen'' het DF forum maar gewoon in het algemeen. Laten we gewoon verder gaan met het M3 draadje en laten we ergens anders een ''Prijs de Z06 de hemel in'' draadje openen. Ofzoiets...

Het valt wel op dat er veel andere auto's in dit draadje vergeleken worden met de M3. Er veel meningen over de auto klaar liggen zonder er in gereden is.

[romo]

Het valt wel op dat er veel andere auto's in dit draadje vergeleken worden met de M3. Er veel meningen over de auto klaar liggen zonder er in gereden is.

Dat alleen zegt al iets over de "status" van de m3 in het algemeen.

Blijkbaar is ie toch goed genoeg om andere auto`s langs deze meetlat te leggen....................................

[romo]

Luister hier nog even naar......................................


http://video.google.com/videoplay?docid ... &plindex=9


http://video.google.com/videoplay?docid ... &plindex=2


Opvallend dat fluittoontje..........................................als je niet beter zou weten, dan zou je zweren dat er een turbo in zat..........................

[Mark Nauta]

Volgens mij hoeft er niets meer gezegd te worden......dat geluid spreekt toch wel voor zichzelf....BMW/M3 liefhebber of niet, dat geluid moet je iets doen.....

[GTRene]

Luister hier nog even naar......................................

Opvallend dat fluittoontje..........................................als je niet beter zou weten, dan zou je zweren dat er een turbo in zat..........................

Inderdaad beetje raar, lijkt wel of er een supercharger meedraait die zit te fluiten...

Maar kan ook de restrictor zijn in de aanzuigbuis ik lul maar wat maar het kan door de vorm van het aanzuigsysteem komen en of iets waar de aanzuiglucht langsgaat een klep ofzow?

Maareuh...de rest van het geluid klinkt wel racy :twisted:

[Rebel]

Mac, ik ken Hielke al vele jaren van diverse andere fora. Als er een iemand een objectief verslag kan typen is hij het.
Hielke heeft geen Roze BMW-bril op, in tegenstelling tot de rest uit het noorden. Tevens is hij in het bezit van een bijzondere sensible derriere, waardoor hij iedere beweging van een auto aanvoelt als de beste.

Fraai geluid Romo.
Dit geluid gaat echt niet uit zo 'n "veder-lichte" budget 1-coupe komen.

[romo]

Voor wie er nog niet genoeg van heeft..............................

http://www.speedtv.com/speedvideo/?bcpi ... 1111441453

[Macboy]

Tevens is hij in het bezit van een bijzondere sensible derriere, waardoor hij iedere beweging van een auto aanvoelt als de beste.

hahahahhahaha

[Joop]

Voor het echte geluidenwerk 8) :

http://www.press.bmwgroup.com/pressclub ... ent&type=3&

Even doorscrollen naar "Spezialeffekten"

Je kunt goed horen dat het een echte V8 is, misschien niet zo lekker als een 6 cylinder M-motor maar nog steeds erg bruut.

[romo]

Voor het echte geluidenwerk 8) :

http://www.press.bmwgroup.com/pressclub ... ent&type=3&

Even doorscrollen naar "Spezialeffekten"

Je kunt goed horen dat het een echte V8 is, misschien niet zo lekker als een 6 cylinder M-motor maar nog steeds erg bruut.

Ook niet verkeerd..............................stationair loopt dat ding echt super zijde zacht, dat had ik in Garching al opgemerkt, hier nogmaals bevestigd.

[romo]

EVO magzine;

http://www.m3post.com/forums/showthread.php?t=74095



http://www.m3post.com/forums/showthread.php?t=74094

[Macboy]

Een groter compliment kan Audi niet krijgen. De Audi evenaart de M3 eigenlijk.

De M3 is nog net iets spannender, maar de Audi is op lage snelheden toch scherper.

Eindelijk echte concurrenten

Oh ja, het lijkt erop dat de M3 niet de originele remmen heeft, zou een afgang zijn. Die van de Audi zijn perfect

[RVV]

EVO test tussen de e46 M3 CS, RS4 en C55 AMG

Audi RS4 v BMW M3 v Mercedes C55
Power Shift
The brilliant new 4WD Audi RS4 has the BMW M3 CS and Mercedes C55 AMG firmly in its sights
By Jethro Bovingdon/Andy Morgan February 2006

The players may be getting faster, louder and ever more sophisticated, but the script never changes. It goes something like this: a new hot Audi is launched, with class-leading power, huge cross-country pace and the sort of pumped-up, hunkered-down appearance of a heavyweight boxer in a slim-cut Savile Row suit. Meanwhile, the ageing, down-on-power BMW M3 saunters quietly alongside and slowly but surely picks the latest and greatest Audi apart piece by agonising piece, in so doing reaffirming itself as the ultimate all-rounder.

To add insult to injury, a few months later a brand new M3 will usually be launched, the segment redefined, and Audi (and the rest) must start the inevitable game of catch-up. As sure as night follows day, the M3 will always be a step ahead of the competition. Untouchable, delectable and deeply desirable.

The spec sheet suggests little has changed with the launch of the new Audi RS4. It has 414bhp to the M3's 338bhp. The quattro system is more sophisticated than ever and channels the monster power to four broad 255/35 R19 contact patches. That's the cross-country pace taken care of. Then there's the appearance that's so tough you hardly dare look it straight in the piercing xenon eye. So far, so predictable... But it's in the detail that the RS4 seems to be going seriously off book.

That quattro system now has a distinct rear bias (40:60), all the better for balance and interactivity. The 4.2-litre, 48-valve, normally-aspirated V8 engine could have been developed within the walls of BMW's M Division such is its free-revving nature (the rev-limiter halts the madness at 8250rpm) and creamy-smooth yet unmistakably hard-edged voice.

This is a new sort of fast Audi, and having tasted its potential in Italy (evo 085) we were desperate to find out if the cycle had finally been broken. Has Audi really torn-up the script and built a car to surpass the mighty, iconic, and - with the introduction of the CS package - better-than-ever M3?

The Audi-versus-BMW battle is the main event, no question, but we've also brought along a Mercedes C55 AMG. Often overlooked, the C55 is surprisingly nimble to drive and awesomely fast. Its 5.5-litre V8 thumps out 367bhp and enough torque to take chunks out of freshly-laid tarmac. Think of it as an SLK55 with a fixed roof and four seats. And without the image problem. Make no mistake, the C55 has the potential to give both RS4 and M3 CS a serious run for their money.

We're in Wales, where else? Okay, we're not exactly getting in the spirit of Audi's attempt to explore uncharted territories and hit new highs but, a bit like the M3, the roads that criss-cross North Wales are the benchmark against which all others must be judged. When you want definitive answers to the big questions, there's nowhere better to seek them.

So, the stage is set: £49,980, 414bhp, 4.2-litre V8 RS4 head-to-head with £43,555, 338bhp, 3.2-litre straight-six M3 CS and £48,790, 367bhp, 5.5-litre V8 Mercedes C55 AMG.

The M3 looks the best value, but such is the ubiquity of BMW's searing baby on the used market that the lower initial outlay will quickly be negated with tumbling residuals. These three are perfectly matched.

Parked side-by-side, all three cars gently pulsing to the beat of their potent engines and gradually shedding the thick layer of ice that's clinging to their bulging bodywork, it's the Audi that punches out of the fog and demands your attention. Of course, it's the least familiar, which lends it an air of mystery, but the beautiful multi-spoke alloys, bold face and heavily swollen arches combine to make the sober C55 look, well... limp. Even the M3 seems to be cowering in the RS4's presence.

While road test assistant Hayman draws on his tenth cigarette of the morning, and Roger Green discusses the shoot-list with photographer Morgan, I jump into the Audi's hot seat... Ah, heated seats. Don't you just love 'em?

The RS4 is soon up to temperature. As we thread along the narrow roads that will soon open up, climb, fall, flick, swoop and generally do their best impression of an Alton Towers roller coaster, there's no question I've chosen the right car. The seats are wonderfully gripping and supportive, the funky flat-bottomed steering wheel perfectly positioned. The cabin feels worth every one of those fifty thousand pounds. Nobody does this sort of thing better than Audi.

More surprising is the RS4's ability to glide over nasty ridges and clumsy surface 'repairs' with impeccable wheel control and no hint of kickback through the steering. It feels light on its feet and even at modest speeds the chassis has a balance and responsiveness that immediately sets it apart from any other Audi I've driven. It's big brother, the mighty RS6, feels like a ballistic steamroller by comparison; all muscle and no subtlety. Clearly the RS4 signals a new philosophy for sporting Audis.

We swap cars at the Shell station in Betws-y-Coed (which must be one of the most profitable petrol stations in Britain. Behind the counter, there's a photo of one of their better days: a line-up of Enzo, F50, 288GTO and F40, with one John Barker feeding them Optimax). I now find myself in the C55 AMG, chasing the RS4. The roads are still slick with morning dew, and despite the bellowing 5.5-litre V8 shoehorned into its engine bay, the C55 has no meaningful reply to the RS4's awesome combination of immense grip and ferocious power.

Incredibly, when you think of Mercedes integrity just a handful of years ago, the C55's interior feels cheap after the supreme quality and cool design of the RS4. The plastics are hopeless and the dash is a mess of tiny buttons with indecipherable legends. The C-class may be in the winter of its life, but the RS4 makes it feel obsolete already.

Still, with the RS4 long gone I can concentrate on just what the C55 has to offer as a driving experience. The ride isn't as settled as the Audi's: the damping feels slightly less controlled and there's certainly more body-roll and pitch. The steering has a dead patch either side of neutral but then weights-up nicely, and although it's by no means the most feelsome of systems it does start to feel more accurate the quicker you go.

Like all AMG products, it's the engine that really defines the C55's character. It doesn't rev to the heavens like the RS4's V8, but in the mid-range you can feel the advantage of that extra displacement. Any throttle movement is rewarded with an instant, neck-snapping response, and the thick seam of torque morphs effortlessly into an anarchic, almost shocking top-end. The Mercedes' bombastic mid-range delivery makes even the RS4's mighty power unit feels like a VTEC. The C55 may have just five gears and be hampered by a conventional torque-converter auto, but it's clear that in a straight line fight it's anything but outmoded.

With the winter sun burning the early- morning fog from the sky and rapidly drying the road surface, perhaps the Mercedes will start to shine. It seems that the M3 CS already is. Hayman drove the car across to Wales last night and was keen to stick with it this morning.

'After the fantastic memories of our Car of the Year test, I have to say it felt a little ordinary yesterday,' he sighs. Fortunately there's more: 'Up here it's incredible, though. Even in these conditions and with its power deficit, it can happily match the RS4. And the balance is just so good.' Sounds like the cue to reacquaint myself with an old friend...

Where's all the power gone? Ah, there it is - much higher up the rev-range. And what a noise! All high-tech, high-displacement fizz and crackle. Incredible throttle-response, too. The CS feels light, razor-sharp, almost devoid of inertia compared to the lazy Mercedes, and against expectations the M3 has more faithful front-end grip than even the RS4. That's the advantage of having a straight-six tucked well back in the engine bay rather than a V8 slung out ahead of the front wheels.

Activate M Track mode with a prod of the button on the tactile suede-rimmed steering wheel, and you're allowed more slip before the traction and stability systems call a halt to the fun, enabling you to use that strong front-end grip to feel your way into the M3's immensely gifted chassis. There's less torque than a thumping V8 produces, but the payoff is superb traction. Even pinning the throttle from the apex of greasy third-gear corners fails to excite the relaxed stability system.

The rear will move a few degrees when you're deep into the power-band and really leaning on the Michelin Pilot Sports, but as it does so the information from the steering (the CS benefits from the quicker, more feelsome CSL rack) and through the seat cushion almost draws a picture in your mind of the car's attitude - it's like an out-of-body experience.

Stay committed and the CS scythes cleanly through the corner, totally balanced, completely hooked-up. When you're dialled-in to the chassis and really nail a road in the M3 it's so unhurried, so serene. You could almost set it
to music. I love this car.

Roger Green has had his fun in the M3, too. But emerging from the RS4 he seems like a man with something to get off his chest. 'It's just so fast. The engine is a monster, and the way it deals with nasty roads is very un-Audi-like. The gearchange is fantastic, the steering smooth and consistent. And those eight-pot brakes are superb. Phwoar!' He likes it, then.

And the Merc? Hayman didn't get off to a great start with it. He didn't realise you have to engage 'M' on the transmission tunnel for the steering-wheel-mounted up- and downshift buttons to work faithfully, and kept finding himself fully committed mid-corner only for the 'box to kickdown, the tail to snap sideways and the ESP to clumsily tidy things up. Now enlightened (he only had to ask) he's warming to it. 'Incredible torque,' he says, 'nice steering feel once you're up to speed, and although it rolls a bit at modest speeds, the body control is actually very crisp when you're on it.'

I'm pretty much in agreement with the Haymanator. In fact I'm unexpectedly falling for the C55. It's so full of character you can almost forgive it the dodgy interior and staid lines. And despite a more understeery initial balance than either RS4 or stubbornly neutral M3, it's very easy to impose your own will on the car. The ESP can't be switched off completely, though, which is annoying on track or even on bone-dry, well-sighted roads, but on damp, leaf-strewn tarmac the system is perfectly judged in its most lenient setting (just prod the ESP button and watch for the yellow triangle glowing on the dash).

One particular corner illustrates the point perfectly. An uphill left taken in third and blind until the apex. Coax the front tyres onto line, feed in some power and immediately the V8 takes the modest-looking Pirelli rubber to its limit, the tail edging out enough to require just a flick of opposite lock. Keep a steady throttle and the C55 stays up on its toes, gently drifting, ESP allowing free rein.

As you crest the rise and see the road ahead is empty, a bit more gas adds to the angle. Too much and the ESP recovers the slide. Get it right, though, and the C55 dances with a delicious angle until the road straightens. Then it explodes along the next straight in one violent lunge. Few cars have such a grin factor.

So, the M3 CS is, as we discovered last month, a truly bewitching car. More surprisingly, the C55 is getting under our skin, too. But the RS4 has a kind of magnetic draw. You can often hear it tearing towards its redline, even when you're wringing the neck of one of the other cars, and especially if the Audi's driver has hit the 'S' button, freeing the exhaust, sharpening the engine's response to your right foot and increasing the seat's grip on your torso. It's a tight, metallic howl, cutting through the cold air with a fervour that even the screaming M Power straight-six can't muster.

Let's break down the constituent parts that set the RS4 apart from other hot Audis. First and foremost there's the linear steering response. It's still a Servotronic set-up and perhaps just a shade on the light side, but unlike, say, the S4, the changes in assistance as your speed varies are imperceptible.

The manual 'box is slick and positive, and the brakes are exceptional (the eight-piston front callipers grip 365mm discs), displaying none of the hyper-sensitivity that often makes Audis tricky to meld with. It all feels just right.

The engine is one of the greats. At low revs there's ample response (unless you've just stepped out of a C55), and it feels genuinely muscular even when lugging at 2000-3000rpm. At 5000rpm you're flying, and then, just when most V8s are starting to huff and puff under the strain, the RS4 kicks again and hammers on to 8250rpm. Never once does it feel overstressed or unenthusiastic. It gives the RS4 a soul.

That the chassis not only contains the V8's muscle, but actually encourages you to cling on to every last rev and search out every scrap of horsepower, is a testament to the latest incarnation of the quattro drivetrain and the clever pitch- and roll-reducing DRC (Dynamic Ride Control) suspension system.

That it very rarely feels nose-heavy or doggedly understeery is vindication of the decision to send more of the power to the rear wheels. Here's an Audi with a nice neutral balance and genuine nimbleness. How long
have we waited to say that?

So it kills the M3 CS, then? Well, not quite. At eight-tenths the RS4 feels exceptional, and even when pushed to its very limits it retains much of its composure. However, it's still true to the Audi philosophy, which means it will always look after you first and foremost, even when you just want a bit of entertainment.

Towards the end of two days of fantastic driving it's fair to say that our collective confidence is up and our pace has escalated. Suddenly the RS4 doesn't feel so impregnable. The ride, so unflustered and reassuring until now, deteriorates as our commitment grows. The body control starts to betray that peculiar engine position with slightly clumsy crashing where before it had glided.

It's very busy under braking, too - somewhat unexpected considering the car's inherent stability. And ultimately, despite the clever four-wheel-drive system that can channel as much as 85 per cent of power to the rear wheels, it becomes clear that mild understeer is still the RS4's preferred stance.

The RS4 is a mighty achievement, a sea-change for fast Audis that hints at how good the mid-engined R8 might be when it arrives later this year. But where the BMW and the Merc taught us new and exciting things the harder and further we drove them, the Audi lost just a bit of its lustre. Perhaps it's a victim of its mesmerising first impression. It's an impossible standard to live up to.

By contrast the Mercedes feels remarkably average on a quick squirt, but beneath the off-putting 'box and initially odd steering feel is a chassis that is incredibly engaging. Even so, it can't scale the heights of the Audi or BMW. It's
a softer, less focussed product. Still, its peachy balance shows that AMG could really deliver the goods if they wanted to.

No surprises then. It comes down to RS4 and M3 CS. After ten minutes behind the wheel the RS4 was my winner. It's got the looks, the interior, the edge on performance. Forty-eight hours later, the deft balance, awesome adjustability and sheer exuberance of the M3 CS seemed insurmountable. It gives you so many options, and I don't just mean you can oversteer it all day long (which you can). It has incredible balance, and it's so responsive to your inputs that you feel intimately involved through every part of every corner. For you and me, that's what really counts.

The M3 is still the all-conquering action hero. Did I mention there's a new one later this year?

[frank de jonge]

Die nieuwe ///M3 klinkt in de hoge toeren boven verwachting

Check filmpie

http://www.edmunds.com/insideline/do/Ge ... eId=120542

[Erik K.]

Oh ja, het lijkt erop dat de M3 niet de originele remmen heeft, zou een afgang zijn. Die van de Audi zijn perfect

Waarom zaten er op de RS4 die door SportAuto getest was dan niet standaard remmen?

[Bram]

Typerend dat Harry Metcalfe, hoofdredacteur van EVO, de nieuwe M3 een E39 M5 coupé noemt. Te weinig vernieuwend...

Ook typerend is dat een RS4 met 19" wielen en quattro systeem 5 kg lichter is dan een M3...

[Downforce Hans]

Typerend dat Harry Metcalfe, hoofdredacteur van EVO, de nieuwe M3 een E39 M5 coupé noemt. Te weinig vernieuwend...

Ook typerend is dat een RS4 met 19" wielen en quattro systeem 5 kg lichter is dan een M3...

En dan had die beemer nog een kartonnen dak ook

Grtz,Hanz06