Evo test 13 M-modellen: wie is de winnaar?

[RVV]

hahaha lol Joep.. zo serieus moet je een lijstje nemen dus.. CSL zo hoog,, prima lijst dus

[Joep]

En dan zie je dit:













Merde, wat ziet zo'n ding er goed uit 8)

Joep

[RVV]

Ja prachtig hoor.

[frankv]

en ik natuurlijk...

frank

Jullie hebben toch geen Sport EVO ???

Nee, de enige echte M3's hebben tegenwoordig een airbox en alpha-n..

Sorry Frank! :twisted:

Adwo

oldskool rules!

frank

[Leen]

Jullie hebben toch geen Sport EVO ???

Nee, de enige echte M3's hebben tegenwoordig een airbox en alpha-n..

Sorry Frank! :twisted:

Adwo

oldskool rules!

frank

airbox + DTA ook goed? 8)

[Joop]

Qua looks is de E46 M3 CSL nog steeds 'the daddy' van de M-familie. 8)

Mooie foto's heb je gevonden Joep. 8)

[RVV]

jaaaaa gescoord bij de tijdschriften handelaar..

Zet hem tussen de verzameling tuk en candy in

[Erik K.]

En wie was de winnaar?

[RVV]

Valt wat tegen, weinig diepgang, jammer.. uiteindelijk ging het maar om 5 M's. die uitgebreid besproken werden. De andere 8 die niet de selectie haalde werden niet meer aangehaald.

De conclussie verklap ik niet, is een beetje jammer voor de mensen die nog moeten lezen.


Maar ik zeg.. WIJ KUNNEN DIT VEEL BETER ! En de auto's hebben we

[RVV]

http://www.edmunds.com/insideline/do/Fe ... eId=123039 , met foto's

Finding the Magic in BMW's M Cars
By John Barker, Contributor Email


Date posted: 10-16-2007

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It doesn't sink in straight away. Shock seldom does. The very latest versions of the BMW M5, M6 and Z4 M Coupe just aren't good enough and they're heading back to Germany. As the engines fire up and the sound of their exhausts finally fades out of earshot, the major mind warp revolves around the star-studded casualties of the cut. Incredibly, the remaining group of BMWs has just one current-generation M car among its number, the new V8-engined 2008 BMW M3.

We're in the paddock of the Llandow Circuit, a test facility tucked down in a corner of Wales just a few miles west of Cardiff. The track opened in 1963 and since it originally was a grass airstrip for Spitfire fighter planes in WWII, it's as flat as a bad piece of English pizza, a little more than a 1.0-mile oval with a few corners mixed in. Because of this, our test loop has also included a few passes in the low mountains nearby that are so typical of this remote corner of Britain.

The mission? To find the greatest BMW M car of all time. The car that represents the very pinnacle of the M Division's achievements. Not the fastest, but the best.

If you ask Gerhard Richter, the vice president of BMW M Gmbh, it's the new 2008 BMW M3. "The M3 stands for our philosophy," he told us at the introduction of the car early last summer. "It is the best representation of the M character, combining the feeling of a racecar with that of a normal street car."

Surely it must be the car to beat.

2008 BMW M3 (E92)
Like the classic M cars, the E92 M3 is a great engine wrapped in a well-balanced, subtle and playful chassis. And the new 414-horsepower 4.0-liter V8 really is a great engine. Forget the rumblings about a lack of torque. It's just that the fireworks at the top end of the rpm range are such that the midrange feels only ordinary. Even without wringing out the engine to its 8,500-rpm redline, the M3 is seriously, effortlessly rapid.

There's no slop in the drivetrain either. Like a Porsche 911 GT3 or a Honda Civic Type R, you can fire through upshifts as fast as you can move your hand, as the engine and gearbox are synced to perfection and there's barely a pause in the awesome power delivery.

Fortunately the M3 also gives you all the tools to exploit it. There's virtually no understeer to speak of and the front end responds very directly and feels very communicative. Predictably, there's not the steering feel of an old-school M3, and you have to have faith that it'll turn in, but once you've built up that level of confidence, the new-school M3 feels totally planted. The electronically controlled M Power limited-slip differential (introduced by the 2005 E60 M5) engages readily but doesn't lock up so tight that you must steer the M3 coupe with the rear wheels to unlock all of its speed. Instead the car feels neutral and finely adjustable.

The ride's excellent, too. On smooth roads, the 3,649-pound coupe feels brilliant, while the three-position electronically adjustable dampers allow you to tailor the M3 to its environment. On bumpy roads, leave it in standard mode; if there's any float as your pace quickens, prod the EDC button and body control is increased. For track work or super-smooth roads, the final, stiffest setting is the one.

So it's a grown-up M3. A bit smoother, a bit more refined, but it still has some M magic. And as an all-around package, it's a fantastic achievement. But that slightly remote steering marks it down and perhaps being the ultimate all-rounder doesn't necessarily make the E92 M3 the best M car.

1978 BMW M1 (E26)
It's tempting to make a comparison between the first and last M cars analogous to that of Chuck Yeager breaking the sound barrier and a Shuttle astronaut reentering the atmosphere. You'd suppose that the astronaut is the computer-cosseted passenger and Yeager more concerned about seat-of-the-pants action.

But it isn't quite like that. It might be nearly 30 years old, but BMW's only midengine road car to date isn't that far off the pace, and neither is it the dynamic handful its advancing years might suggest. True, its peak output of 277 horsepower at 6,500 rpm from the 3.5-liter inline-6 engine seems vaguely weak next to the E92 M3 V8's 414 hp, but then the fiberglass-bodied M1 (originally engineered in a collaboration between BMW and Lamborghini) weighs just 2,866 pounds, a 783-pound advantage over the rather more lard-encrusted E92 M3.

All right, the M3 will pull away from our M1 steadily on any straight, but when it was new the M1 would hit 60 mph from rest in 5.8 seconds and power on to an unrestricted top speed of 162 mph. That gives away a 1.0-second advantage to the new M3 in the 60-mph benchmark, but on these twisting Welsh roads the M1 can stay in touch without the need for Yeager levels of bravery (or standby underwear).

Fact is, the M1 immediately feels special. It's remarkably easy to drive fast, reasonably civilized and amazingly user-friendly. Lean on it a bit in a bend and you can sense how unfriendly it might all become if you wanted to drive one absolutely flat out, but you don't need to be a frequent visitor to the limit to raid the M1's goodie bag. As a low-to-medium-speed drifter, it's benign and progressive. You can feel the front start to go, then come back as you trim the throttle, which, for the most part, is where the subtlety ends.

For raw, all-senses-engaged involvement, the M1 hangs the E92 M3 out to dry. The shift action and clutch engagement are almost absurdly meaty affairs (1978 was a long time ago, remember) and the unassisted steering initially seems impossibly slow and more than a little vague (a measure to allay fears of compromised straight-line stability).

Once traveling, though, it all starts to come together with a swelling rush of satisfaction. It quickly becomes apparent that scalpel-like precision can never have been part of the engineering brief for the M1, but take up a little of the slack mentally and tune into the sublime balance and poise of the chassis and you have a dynamic repertoire that makes the rather numb E92 M3 seem two-dimensional.

1998 BMW M5 (E39)
The last M5 standing can't rely on M1-style seductive good looks to impress us. By common consent, the 1998-era E39 is the most sober-looking sedan here, its considerable V8 potency nestled beneath a plain, although attractive, wrapper. And potential there most certainly is, as this 4.9-liter V8 develops 400 hp at 6,600 rpm and 369 pound-feet of torque at 3,800, plus it has a lovely six-speed manual transmission (an exquisite antidote to the steering-wheel-mounted shift paddles of the current E60 M5's SMG transmission) as well as the early stirrings of the configurable chassis electronics. This car is the reason the E60 M5 and E63 M6 are on their way home.

Here it's just one button labeled "Sport" that delivers more aggressive response from the drive-by-wire throttle as well as an extra dollop of steering effort. Not particularly complicated or clever, but very nicely judged, as with so much else about this car.

Likewise the suspension, with conventional springs and dampers tuned for a perfectly brilliant compromise between ride and handling. Brilliant because it combines great comfort with almost absurdly exploitable driftability (once you've switched off the one-stage traction control), ensuring that driver and passengers are kept equally happy, though not necessarily at the same time.

The basic formula for the 4.9-liter V8 is very different from that of the 4.0-liter V8 in the new E92 M3, and its performance is more relaxed and effortlessly entertaining. When you drive the E39, you realize there's something utterly fascinating about such a big car going so fast. You shouldn't be able to make a big galumphing sedan feel as if it's been to ballet class, but somehow the M division engineers managed it. The E39 M5 shows the E92 M3 how you should really do the whole big-horsepower, comfy-seats thing, if that's the way you want to go.

So we have here an expression of M-ness that contrasts starkly with the high-spirited and even temperamental E92 M3. It's hard to imagine the E39 M5 winning a race, but easy to see it as the everyday wheels of a racer susceptible to the odd temptation, powersliding it with one hand on the steering wheel as he leaves the paddock gate. The new E60 M5 would leave it for dead and deposit even longer black lines on the pavement as it did so, yet seems terminally uptight by comparison.

2003 BMW M3 CSL (E46)
The M3 CSL is a completely different proposition again. It's the spiritual successor to the formidable E30 M3, the classic M car.

The lightweight CSL, built for the European market in 2003, looks absolutely nuts with its distinctive carbon-fiber roof (a feature the E92 M3 has inherited). It's a drum-taut, hard-muscled object lesson in aesthetic warfare, against which the E92 M3 comes across about as tough as a platoon of jelly babies. Sounds awesome, too. It's that Sport button again, which wakes up the throttle for this 3.2-liter inline-6 just as it does on the M5 but also gives the induction chorus a hi-fi amp and high-efficiency speakers with its carbon-fiber air box. No BMW six has ever sounded better.

By any sensible standard, this is the most hard-core M3 ever built, and all of the M Division's single-minded engineering comes through in the driving experience. When you lean on the 355 hp that this engine delivers at a stratospheric 7,900 rpm, the inline-6 really feels like it's doing an honest day's work. The rest of the car's up for it, too. You can almost hear it chanting the mantra under its breath: maximum effort, maximum conviction and maximum commitment. Step from the E39 M5 into the CSL and you might as well have donned Tour de France-spec Lycra after shedding an overcoat of Eskimo animal furs. And you'd better be ready for business.

The SMG automated sequential manual transmission is. In fact, it's so manically swift and completely on it that those of us who'd take a conventional manual transmission any old day of the week have been partially won over. Of all the M cars with SMG, the CSL makes the most sense, since it's the closest to being a racing car for the road.

The CSL is the most firmly suspended of all the remaining cars, yet the chassis tune never feels harsh or jarring. Its steering is a revelation, too — light effort yet without a millimeter of wasted motion and brimming with deliciously resolved feel for the road. Turn and the CSL changes tack instantly: no body roll or even compliance in the suspension bushings to blur the message, just lightning response, terrific precision and masses of cornering grip. Point to point, the E92 M3 struggles to stay in touch with this car, despite its advantage of straight-line speed. But then, the E92 M3 also feels as if it weighs about half as much again as the E46 M3 CSL and has been given a slug of anesthetic besides.

1986 BMW M3 (E30)
Question is, have we saved the best till last or are we about to witness a bloody massacre? How can the boxy E30 M3 with its turbocharged 2.5-liter inline-4 engine — even in its ultimate 1990 Sport Evolution configuration with 235 hp at 7,000 rpm — stand up to the sophisticated savagery of the E46 M3 CSL, the effortless mambo of the E39 M5, the supercar chops of the E26 M1 and the phenomenal pace, poise and polish of the E92 M3?

Quite easily, as it turns out. Let's make this simple: The original M3 is utterly brilliant. More to the point, it's utterly brilliant in ways that the people at M have either forgotten about or chosen to ignore. Something of the essence of the E30 is present in the CSL and the M1 — a sense of mechanical honesty, integration and purity — yet not in the E92 M3. For all its pace and grip, the new V8-powered M3 doesn't have the E30's dynamic fluency, its loose-limbed agility or its intimacy.

Apparently Formula 1 driver Jean Alesi liked his E30 M3 so much he later called it one of the most enjoyable and best-handling road cars he had ever owned. A finely balanced weight distribution of 48 percent front/52 percent rear gives one clue as to why it feels so good. This car can't rely on electronic aids, so it has to work with you and build a mutual bond of trust. It's as if the car knows exactly what you want to do. And in turn, the car's intentions and abilities are completely clear to the driver. If you can't form a close relationship with the E30, chances are you have no friends.

This original M3 from 1986, created as a homologation special for racing, is the antithesis of the new E92 M3 with its big horsepower and comfy seats. The pure connection between man and machine more than compensates for the car's comparative lack of pace down the straight bits. You can tell exactly what each of the four wheels is doing and the balance allows them to work in unison. This car is the very essence of what the BMW M Division is all about.

The Best of the Best
The E26 M1 has an essential spirit that you look for in a BMW M car, but it lacks firepower and feels old-fashioned these days, so it comes in a noble 5th in this rarefied group. The new E92 M3 doesn't have the E30 M3 magic, but its speed and ability are electrifying. That it doesn't finish higher than 4th is testament to the fact that it's up against the all-time greats here. The V8-engined E39 M5 is absurdly good fun, but the E46 M3 CSL just bests it for total sensual overload.

When we tally up the scores at the end of the day, it's the E30 M3 that beats them all. It wins because it does more with less and destroys the idea (apparently at the core of BMW M thinking these days) that if power is good, more power must be better.

If that were the case, the E92 M3 — which, on paper, is a best-of-all-worlds solution with its M5-derived V8, M3 size and M1 supercar aspirations — would represent the very pinnacle of the M Division's achievements. But the touch of the master belongs to a different era, a lightweight M3 scaled down to a package that's less about technology than the magical connection between man and machine.

[Robin]

Kortom: De M1 is de winnaar in mijn ogen.

[Downforce Dennis]

Question is, have we saved the best till last or are we about to witness a bloody massacre? How can the boxy E30 M3 with its turbocharged 2.5-liter inline-4 engine

waardeloos artikel imho, mede dankzij deze quote...

sorry jongens maar dit is allesbehalve een referentie...

[Christoph]

Had hem voor deze vergelijking gekocht 2 weken terug... vind het beetje te duur a 10 euro 50...

[markk]

Maar de markt vraagt nou eenmaal niet meer om zulk soort hardcore sportwagens.

///M modellen zijn geen hardcore sportauto's. Zijn ze nooit, ook niet in het e30 tijdperk, geweest en gaan ze ook nooit worden.

Toegeven, de e30 is "harder" / "puurder" dan de huidige modellen van BMW ///Motersport. En idd de markt vraagt steeds minder om dergelijke modellen.

Toegeven, met wat "tweaks" hier en daar zoals de Adwo/Pol editie wordt het wel een hardcore sportauto. Maar een "standaard" e30 m3 een hardcore sportauto noemen, no way.

Hardcore sportauto's zijn Elise's, donkervoorts, GT3's, etc. Niet een ///M van BMW. Ook de CSL en de e30 niet.

Brilliant zijn ze wel die ///M(odellen)


Mark.

[markk]

Oh, misschien de M1 uitgezonderd. Nooit mee gereden...
Mark.

[Michel P]

Maar de markt vraagt nou eenmaal niet meer om zulk soort hardcore sportwagens.

///M modellen zijn geen hardcore sportauto's. Zijn ze nooit, ook niet in het e30 tijdperk, geweest en gaan ze ook nooit worden.

Toegeven, de e30 is "harder" / "puurder" dan de huidige modellen van BMW ///Motersport. En idd de markt vraagt steeds minder om dergelijke modellen.

Toegeven, met wat "tweaks" hier en daar zoals de Adwo/Pol editie wordt het wel een hardcore sportauto. Maar een "standaard" e30 m3 een hardcore sportauto noemen, no way.

Hardcore sportauto's zijn Elise's, donkervoorts, GT3's, etc. Niet een ///M van BMW. Ook de CSL en de e30 niet.

Brilliant zijn ze wel die ///M(odellen)


Mark.

Sluit ik mij bij aan.

Michel

[Frans van Bekkum]

M3 E30 beslist.

[Mari Oh Oh!]

...E30 M3 with its turbocharged 2.5-liter inline-4 engine...

Man, wat een flater.

[Downforce Dennis]

Zelf hield ik het maar een week uit met de M3 E46 alvorens ik hem weer verkocht. Terwijl deze voor de ander geweldig is.....of kan zijn. Wie zal het zeggen.

wil je hier een beredenering voor geven? Of op welke basis berust jouw ontevredenheid mbt e46 M3

[RVV]

Question is, have we saved the best till last or are we about to witness a bloody massacre? How can the boxy E30 M3 with its turbocharged 2.5-liter inline-4 engine

waardeloos artikel imho, mede dankzij deze quote...

sorry jongens maar dit is allesbehalve een referentie...

Dennis volgens mij staat dit niet in het originele artikel in EVO zelf. (zal het vanavond nog even nakijken, maar bij EVO zijn ze echt niet achterlijk) Edmunds zal de rechten wel aangekocht hebben voor publicatie op hun website en een pennetje aan de tekst verdraaid hebben.

[Downforce Dennis]

Rico,

tijd voor een DF favourite ///M all times concensus dan?
Prik een datum waar we zoveel mogelijk verschillende M's bij elkaar sprokkelen en eventueel met elkaars auto rijden en evalueren?

lijkt me echt top om te doen, al is het maar een statische evaluatie...
Bepalen van P0rno gehalte, brutaliteit, luxe, sportiviteit, etc...

[frankv]

Question is, have we saved the best till last or are we about to witness a bloody massacre? How can the boxy E30 M3 with its turbocharged 2.5-liter inline-4 engine

waardeloos artikel imho, mede dankzij deze quote...

sorry jongens maar dit is allesbehalve een referentie...

hoi dennis, blijkbaar ken je de EVO niet anders zou je hebben geweten dat ze dit soort blunders niet maken, daar zijn ze teveel liefhebber voor!

hoe het dan op het web komt? misschien de versie genomen van voor de laatste correcties?

frank

[Downforce Dennis]

hey Frank,

nee je hebt gelijk, ik ben meer voor het rijden zelf dan lezen over het rijden...

boeit me verder weinig zo'n automagazine, omdat er voor 70% slap gelul instaat. Misschien is EVO anders, dat laat ik in het midden...